Thalassemia Patients and Friends
Discussion Forums => Living with Thalassemia => Topic started by: tyson on February 26, 2009, 05:07:38 AM
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Hey guys i was wondering if its true that thals dont get big at all (body wise). Does thal have effect on muscle development if i tried to build some muscle. i dont want to enormously big just more tonned. ive always had this thing in my heard that we cant be built and we stay a small build. just want to confurm.
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Hi Tyson,
Most thals I have met are slender in build, but I think that with resistance training thals can be toned. I don't think that thals should be on high protein diets etc. to build muscle because that could be tough on the liver and kidneys, however with a balanced diet and regular exercise hals can build strong bones and muscle. Be sure to have enough calcium, magnesium, zinc, phosphorus and vitamin D in your diet to achieve these benefits from exercise.
I hope this helps,
Sharmin
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I don't know about muscle build but Thals do gain strength if on regular exercise and small scale weight lifts. Thats my personal experience.
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I think that as long as you are well chelated and there is no iron over load in your body in addition to balanced diet and excerise as Sharmin stated you will be able to reach what you want. The key word here is porper chelation in order to deal with a normal body that will help you achieve what you want
manal
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first i think to visite your Dr.and check your blood and also the protine ,, you can start with small waight but you have to mantain good protine level and from fresh food like chicken also the calsium level from milk also you can take prescribtion from your Dr to take some kind of vitamine containing calsium and protine (EAT TOO MUCH HEALTHY FOOD) :wink
KHALIFA
STATE OF KUWAIT
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I have read an article about an UK Thal who runned a marathon last year! He wanted to do this once, so i guess he fulfit a dream :)
His doctor told him not to sport when his hgb was too low and he was given extra transfusions to be able to do enough excersizes before the big day.
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Hey guys i was wondering if its true that thals dont get big at all (body wise). Does thal have effect on muscle development if i tried to build some muscle. i dont want to enormously big just more tonned. ive always had this thing in my heard that we cant be built and we stay a small build. just want to confurm.
Dr Wonke of UK used to advise all thals to go to the gym - she used to say that regular exercise was part of the regime that will keep us healthy and fit for long - you can consider weight training, if your heart function is in the normal range. Aerobic exercises may not help as much, apart from swimming and walking (not jogging)
Cheers
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Hi all,
Weight training builds bones and muscles in thal major and recommended. Rope skipping is highly recommended for children 8 and up. Swimming is not recommended as it is not weight bearing exercise at all. However, if someone like swimming its good for stamina.
I think a lot depends on the parental genes as well and with proper care thal major can achieve anything they want including optimal height and weight.
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I would like to add to the discussion concerning swimming. As CF stated, it is not a weight bearing exercise, but some thals have such weak bones that most weight bearing exercises cannot be tried, at least until they reverse their osteo, so exercise like swimming can have some real value.
For more about weight bearing exercise and osteo see http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00263
What is "Weightbearing"?
Weightbearing describes any activity you do on your feet that works your bones and muscles against gravity. Bone is living tissue that constantly breaks down and reforms. When you do regular weightbearing exercise, your bone adapts to the impact of weight and pull of muscle by building more cells and becoming stronger.
Some activities recommended to build strong bones include:
Brisk walking, jogging, and hiking.
Yard work such as pushing a lawnmower and heavy gardening.
Team sports, such as soccer, baseball, and basketball.
Dancing, step aerobics, and stair climbing.
Tennis and other racquet sports.
Skiing, skating, karate, and bowling.
Weight training with free weights or machines.
Although they are excellent cardiovascular exercise choices, swimming and bicycling are not weightbearing activities, so are not as effective as the above activities in adding bone mass. If musculoskeletal conditions prevent weight-bearing exercise, then swimming and cycling are good alternatives. They do have some bone-building capacity.
You should exercise for at least 30 minutes a day, four or more days a week. Besides improving bone strength, regular exercise also increases muscle strength, improves coordination and balance, and leads to better overall health. To sustain the bone strengthening benefit of weightbearing activity, you must increase the intensity, duration and amount of stress applied to bone over time.
So, if the condition is bad, swimming should be seen as a possible alternative until a better situation develops. I think the value is probably more in creating better circulation and providing more oxygen to the bones, than the value that weight bearing exercise has in a direct way. Anything that does help build muscle will take some stress off of the bones, so thals are advised to do any type of exercise they can manage. Even those who cannot handle weight bearing exercise will be able to work towards doing so if they are doing whatever exercise they can currently manage.
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It is Spring again so I will restart my brisk walking. It's a pity that bicyling is out of the question. Andy, is there a level of hgb from which you can get furlough to doing weightbearing?
:)
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Dore,
Bike riding is excellent exercise even if it isn't directly a weight bearing exercise, just as is swimming is not weight bearing. For many thals with weak bones, these exercises may be preferable. They do build the muscles, while sparing shock to the joints, and are actually some of the better all around exercises for your health. I don't think there's any particular Hb level where you can or cannot do exercise because that varies with every individual. You have to judge for yourself which type of exercise you are able to do. I highly recommend both swimming and biking to thals for general exercise as they both are excellent cardio exercises. Thals need more than weight bearing exercises and adding cardio exercise to your routine will be a benefit.
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Ive tryed heavy weight lifting in the past and never gained much muscle.. I am only 132 pounds but ive been told im very strong for my size..
Doctor told me to avoid anything they try to sell me at ..say gnc..because it will only lead to high blood pressure and such
I have been reading that high protein is not to good of an idea either...so is there any ideal way to gain muscle mass?
Only way I can think of is alot of calories..(where to get those calories?) complex carbs in excess can be bad too right? I guess my question is wondering if there is an equillibrium in diet for a thal minor that wants to bulk up
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I've gained 9kgs of pure lean muscle mass in 7months of bodybuilding and yes its gr8 ... To gain muscle mass just eat minimum 1.5g per Lbs protein(no problem at all) and make combination of carb/pro/fat in 40/20/20 ratio ..though every person reacts differenlty .... You have to add up calories to increase wutever mass u want ... without that think ..and think again .... get ur Body Mass Index calculated and eat 3-400 calories more than that increase calories slowly and week after week .... if diet is right , training and rest is in place ... u shud gane one pound per week ...and thts wut i really did despite being thal maj ...
For more info on nutrition calories training .... www.nutritiondata.com and www.uk-muscle.co.uk
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Hi, Iam in the fitness almost every day.
I do it for fun and relaxing not to build musculs :biggrin
I feel very well and relaxed.
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Hey all. I have been on a weight gaining mission for the last 10 years. I am very active. 6'2" and right now 180lbs. I had been stuck at 165 to 170lb for years. I do weight train, but no matter what I tried I looked the same. I have recently added the last ten pounds after trying Rock Climbing. It has provided the most well rounded workout I have gotten. I love it! My goal is 190lbs by the spring. I still weight train about 2 times a week and rock climbing 2 times a week. My diet was around 3000+ cal a day, but I have increased it to almost 4000. People that I don't see that often notice the extra mass which keeps me motivated. I will post pictures in the gallery.
Be well.
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Great to hear that Bobby :yes keep it up and good luck :goodluck .
Zaini.
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Hey all. I have been on a weight gaining mission for the last 10 years. I am very active. 6'2" and right now 180lbs. I had been stuck at 165 to 170lb for years. I do weight train, but no matter what I tried I looked the same. I have recently added the last ten pounds after trying Rock Climbing. It has provided the most well rounded workout I have gotten. I love it! My goal is 190lbs by the spring. I still weight train about 2 times a week and rock climbing 2 times a week. My diet was around 3000+ cal a day, but I have increased it to almost 4000. People that I don't see that often notice the extra mass which keeps me motivated. I will post pictures in the gallery.
Be well.
6'2 ...and 81 kg is light i guess ... mine hieght is 5'2 and weight just 110 and im on 3500+ ~4000 diet .... iF ur not growing 2 things r lacking ... diet or rest ...
At ur height and weight 3500 is less to increase weight ... i remember my friend had to raise calories upto 7000 to increase weight ....if ur growing then continous addition of calories must b there ....
Frock climbing and Weight training r very differ\ent things ./..if u want to build urself like BB's then target more than 4000calories for urself ... for more info calculate BMI from www.nutritiondata.com and very informative BB forum www.uk-muscle.co.uk
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Do you take any supplements like pyruvate? I asked because I saw some bodybuilders take this. My disease is based on a deficiency of pyruvate.
Good luck with your stuff.
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supplements include whey protein and multivitamins(beware of iron--try to find iron less) and antioxidants ... thats it
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@Waleed.
You weigh 110 pounds right? or is it Kg which I believe is less likely. I am also 5'2" and weigh 115 lbs, and not taking any extra calories or anything. And my physique is no way near yours ??? Am I heavy or are you light :huh
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How does a thal minor put on weight or muscle mass?
My hb is 9.5 , I get tired in a matter of minutes when i exercise lightly too. Always been a poor eater, even when i am extremely hungry, the food refuses to go in - like i don't have any space in me. If i force myself, I get sick.
5'2" weighing 40 kgs right now. The maximum i have touched is 42 kgs.
I don't seem to build stamina either, even if i walk daily, I keep getting weaker till i have to give up.
Weight loss - is very easy - each time i get even slightly unwell, I lose a bit.
Gaining weight is the near impossible task.
???
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Weight loss - is very easy
Preety,this might be the case for you,for me,its the other way round :rotfl :rotfl if you can join a gym or hire a personal trainer,it might help you,coz they'll be able to tell you how to build your stamina.And how to gain weight.
Zaini.
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Zaini, I share with you the tendency to gain weight from just breathing little more air :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl
Preety
If you want to gain weight, just drink four or five cups of bananas blended with milk and honey every day with your normal meals and trust me you will gain about 4 kilos in three months
Hope this helps
manal
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Hi everyone.
Hope you all are well. Here's an update. At my last post I was 180lbs, I am still weight lifting and taking vitamins. I recently added some cardio(10-15mins max), mostly running, however I still can't constantly run for more than 3 or 4 mins. I recently added Nitric Oxide as a supplement and notice some gains in the first week like being able to lift more reps with the same weight and a definate energy increase. I will attempt to add weight at my next workout session. I am currently 185.5lbs and only 4.5lbs until my spring time goal of 190lb.
Take care of yourselves.
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Hey Bobby,
What form of nitric oxide are you taking?
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Hey Bobby,
What form of nitric oxide are you taking?
Hello Andy,
It's a body building supplement call NO Xplode by BSN. It's in a powder form that can be mixed with water. I am taking one scoop 30 to 45 mins before working out.
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Bobby,
Please keep us updated on your results with using NO. I think it can do a lot for anyone with lower than normal oxygen levels.
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Bobby,
Please keep us updated on your results with using NO. I think it can do a lot for anyone with lower than normal oxygen levels.
Sure thing.
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Thanks Zaini, Manal!
I've been down since a month with IBS again, and Lost some more weight ... :wah Eating bland diet food, till my body can handle normal food again!
My health goes around in circles, Any tummy infection needs antibiotics, and the antibiotics aggravate the tummy! lol..
The IBS doesn't let me have a lot of milk, I try to have bananas - which worsens my sinusitis/allergies/throat issues!
For some reason I don't get fever, so i don't even notice I have infections, till it gets worse.
Tried the Gym, I black out within seconds.
Its funny how you guys can gain weight by looking at sweets, etc, and I can swim around in Chocolate and nothing happens!! :rotfl
But i've made up my mind to gain weight - maybe with hope and faith and other miracles!!!
:grin
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But i've made up my mind to gain weight - maybe with hope and faith and other miracles!!!
:rotfl :rotfl I am sure you will
Another tip... try to have proteins and carbohydrates in one meal. For me, I do the opposite as i try not to mix them in order not to gain weight so i mix either protein with vegetables or carbohydrates and vegetables
manal
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Hey thanks Manal,
All the things that others do - to avoid putting on weight - Should help me!! :biggrin
I was not aware that eating proteins and carbs together helps gain weight. Its easy to follow, I will have to look up foods that contain them.
:hugfriend
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@Waleed.
You weigh 110 pounds right? or is it Kg which I believe is less likely. I am also 5'2" and weigh 115 lbs, and not taking any extra calories or anything. And my physique is no way near yours ??? Am I heavy or are you light :huh
Tariq of my height weight age and sex my Body Mass Index is 20.6. My last weight count is 51kg. The answer to your question is that many have weight 70 or 75kgs. However a 5'10" young boy with lean muscle mass can compete in bodybuilding show at those weight ranges. There are weightlifiting classes that range from 50-55kg too. the point that makes the difference what you have asked is LEAN BODY MASS (muscle) to Body Fat ratio... You may have more of your 115lbs covered by your body fat whereas mine is composed of lean muscle mass and thats why we are different.
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Thanks Zaini, Manal!
I've been down since a month with IBS again, and Lost some more weight ... :wah Eating bland diet food, till my body can handle normal food again!
My health goes around in circles, Any tummy infection needs antibiotics, and the antibiotics aggravate the tummy! lol..
The IBS doesn't let me have a lot of milk, I try to have bananas - which worsens my sinusitis/allergies/throat issues!
For some reason I don't get fever, so i don't even notice I have infections, till it gets worse.
Tried the Gym, I black out within seconds.
Its funny how you guys can gain weight by looking at sweets, etc, and I can swim around in Chocolate and nothing happens!! :rotfl
But i've made up my mind to gain weight - maybe with hope and faith and other miracles!!!
:grin
Definitely u can gain weight..if you'r too intersted then i may devise a nutrition pand exrcise plan if u like.it will surely b helpful..and as for the throat infection cuz of banas YOU R NOT ALONE it happens to every1 trying to put more banas in belly./.the solution is eat less banas then that..and if u get infection then leave them for 2 days and then back again with same aount and this time u wud hav deveopled immunity to this amount...i started with i guess three and cud easily diggest 3 dozens in a day.. it will develop slowly very solwly./ The DIFFICULT task in weight gaining body building is not the time and effort spent in gym...but the effort done to put food ur food fown the throat.it is the MAJOR FACTOR that affects who will be the bodybuilding champ.bb's all around the world struggle for it liike a death n life race.
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:rotfl :rotfl I am sure you will
Another tip... try to have proteins and carbohydrates in one meal. For me, I do the opposite as i try not to mix them in order not to gain weight so i mix either protein with vegetables or carbohydrates and vegetables
manal
Its not necessary Protein and Carohydrate combination will make you gain weight. If this is the combination and ur eating overall less calories than requirement U WILL NOT GAIN with this then. However if using this comb and you're exceeding ur daily calorie needs ONLY then you will gain weight ….and if…those calories include protein in it then you will gain muscle mass with exercise. But if you do not exercise and eat more carbs ratio then u will gain fat.
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Hey thanks Manal,
All the things that others do - to avoid putting on weight - Should help me!! :biggrin
I was not aware that eating proteins and carbs together helps gain weight. Its easy to follow, I will have to look up foods that contain them.
:hugfriend
ITS NOT THAT way. combining them or isolating them does not count toweight gain. It is rather GOOD to have both combined in a diet. Only ur total calori intake will make u gain or lose
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Hello All,
Hope you all are well. I just left my hematologist for some blood work and here are the results. I'm posting here because of the last discussion with Andy about NO2. I started taking the NO2 supplement along with my multi vitamin about 6 to 8 weeks ago, so far it's been all positive. I feel very good physically and mentally. I'm still around 185.5lbs. I was able to run my first 12min mile in a very long time, usually it takes around 15mins. I've increased the amount I can lift while working out. My iron work is not back yet, but the Dr. will update me when it is. Last time it was borderline high and if it is over he mentioned exjade. I hope it's not. I drink tea with every meal and none of my supplements contain iron. The previous numbers for the WBC and the HGB were from about 6mths ago.
WBC 16.8K/uL down from 18.
RBC 4.45 M/ul
HGB 9.1g/dl up from 8.2
HCT 29.2%
Take care of yourselves.
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Thanks Bobby for your update, the usage of NO is so interesting. Wish all your results will be satisfactory
Manal
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@ Bobby-
Thats good to hear Bobby, keep us posted.
@ Waleed-
I agree calories intake should be more than energy expended. But I've noticed at times, I eat almost twice the amount and its no use, I don't even gain half kilo. I think the anemia, when hgb is less than 10, my body doesn't seem to improve with anything. And every little health issue, makes me lose weight FAST.
Is it possible that due to the less hgb and less oxygen, there is a problem gaining weight? I also have digestive/absorption issues so that also maybe a factor why my food is not utilised well.
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@ Bobby-
Thats good to hear Bobby, keep us posted.
@ Waleed-
I agree calories intake should be more than energy expended. But I've noticed at times, I eat almost twice the amount and its no use, I don't even gain half kilo. I think the anemia, when hgb is less than 10, my body doesn't seem to improve with anything. And every little health issue, makes me lose weight FAST.
Is it possible that due to the less hgb and less oxygen, there is a problem gaining weight? I also have digestive/absorption issues so that also maybe a factor why my food is not utilised well.
Dear Pretty, its very difficult to eat twice as required, PERSISTENTly and NOT gaining weight. the problem arises that u cant eat more than required cuz of loss of appetite and thats where u have to fight. i remember when i had to take 3500 and above kcalories u cant imagine how much food it takes and how hard it is to bring down after every 3 hours.. i always felt nausea and bloating. However if u r able to eat and measure it then surely u'' gain waeight..
and the second point u asked is exactly the same question i have in my mind... i have spent hard 9months in and outiside the gym doing heavy exercises , eating every 3 hours, fighting bloat nause, forced myself to sleep 8-10 hours and gained good 10kg weight ...and now its been almst 3 months ive to quit gym and diet cuz ive shifted to another counry for employment and 50% of my muslces are GONE ! i i havent measured my weight but i guess i wud hav lost atleast 4-5 kgs of lean muscle mass... do normal ppl lose muscle mass that fast? or does thalasemia hor low hgb has sumthing to do withit? will 9-12 hgb have incremental/detrimental or no effects for hypertrophical gains? all these questions are to answered and i guess im going to make a threadfor that
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Well today my hgb is 9.4 :wah
That may explain why i lost weight and cant put it back on. Plus my celiac/ibs is also to blame. When I'm feeling good, energetic, and gain 2-3 kilos, most often my hgb is 10.5.
Maybe that is the time i could try to eat more and work with mild weights to begin with.
Coincidentally now, I dont seem to have any muscle... like superwoman types. even lifting one kilo takes massive efforts. There is surely some connection with hgb, oxygen, and muscle mass, gain/loss.
Do you think some regular dose of extra IV vitamins, etc may help my 40 kilos??? :smileblue
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Dear Pretty, its very difficult to eat twice as required, PERSISTENTly and NOT gaining weight. the problem arises that u cant eat more than required cuz of loss of appetite and thats where u have to fight. i remember when i had to take 3500 and above kcalories u cant imagine how much food it takes and how hard it is to bring down after every 3 hours.. i always felt nausea and bloating. However if u r able to eat and measure it then surely u'' gain waeight..
and the second point u asked is exactly the same question i have in my mind... i have spent hard 9months in and outiside the gym doing heavy exercises , eating every 3 hours, fighting bloat nause, forced myself to sleep 8-10 hours and gained good 10kg weight ...and now its been almst 3 months ive to quit gym and diet cuz ive shifted to another counry for employment and 50% of my muslces are GONE ! i i havent measured my weight but i guess i wud hav lost atleast 4-5 kgs of lean muscle mass... do normal ppl lose muscle mass that fast? or does thalasemia hor low hgb has sumthing to do withit? will 9-12 hgb have incremental/detrimental or no effects for hypertrophical gains? all these questions are to answered and i guess im going to make a threadfor that
Thanks Manal, Preety,
Waleed, I would also like to know the answer to your questions. It seems that just being away from the gym for a few weeks weight and muscle lose is quite noticable. I realize in an attempt to produce more red blood cells our bodies are constantly working and burning calories, but how many calories? My Dr. once told me my body thinks it's on a threadmill almost 24hrs a day.
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My body also feels the same - so much heat with every little work, that I feel i've exercised a lot.
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bobby
yes brother, to grow in BB we must have knowledge and calculate everything to make sure nothing is missing. when i ensured my diet,training and erst i grew dramatically. but when im otside gym and off diet i lose drastically...why? is thal to b blamed? its around 3months i havent been to gym.but point to b noted is my diet isnt that same to make me grow. And my hb that i kept 12-15 isnt same too. but still there are so many factors missing that I cant blame thal just for it. I guess not until when i'l restart the gym and diet with 9-12.5 hgb range we can answer the question that low Hgb hinders Hypertrophical Gains or not. I wish i cud become a test subject in any experiment regarding "thalasemia and bodybuilding"...i just wish
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Do you think some regular dose of extra IV vitamins, etc may help my 40 kilos??? :smileblue
I followed a pasta diet. The side effect is that I do not want to eat tomato sauce anymore but 5 years after my weight is still above 40. Just a thought.