Thalassemia Patients and Friends

Discussion Forums => Thalassemia Minor => Topic started by: Ginni on March 09, 2011, 11:48:12 AM

Title: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: Ginni on March 09, 2011, 11:48:12 AM
Hi All,

Just a quick question pls. Can a 5 year old child (both parents beta Thal minor) who till now has shown no signs of paleness, lethargy etc be still be diagnosed as Thal Major at this age. Electrophoresis test has not been done as yet but just wanted to check if anybody could answer.

Thanks
Title: Re: Quick Question pls
Post by: Andy Battaglia on March 09, 2011, 03:31:49 PM
No, a thal major would already be taking blood transfusions by age 5. If thal intermedia was present, you would have seen signs early on. I think if your child is a carrier, it is no more than minor if there have been no obvious signs to the contrary by age 5.
Title: Re: Quick Question pls
Post by: Ginni on March 09, 2011, 04:23:30 PM
Thank You Andy !!
Title: Re: Quick Question pls
Post by: Ginni on March 09, 2011, 07:21:35 PM
My wife is 6 weeks pregnant and this is our second child and as I mentioned in my previous post both me and my wife are Beta Thal Minors. In our first child's case we didnt know a thing about Thal and found out only at 32 weeks pregnancy but this time around we are more aware and would ensure to take all care to give a healthy life to our coming baby.

We met the gynaecologist today and she has started the routine medical tests, recommended a folic acid tablet daily and has also suggested to get a CVS done around 8-9 weeks of pregnancy.

I have a few questions pls.

1. Is CVS an accurate test to find out if the fetus is infected with major / minor or is not infected at all.
2. Is 8-9 weeks the right time to get this test done or is it too early.
3. Is is too cumbersome for my wife to get the test done? Would it be painful. Is there any risk.
4. Would amniocentesis be better or CVS be better for the accuracy of the result.
5. How much time does it take to get the CVS test done.
6. In how many days can the report be made available.
7. Upto how many weeks can the abortion be done legally in India.
8. Is it still important to validate the CVS test results with electrophoresis after the birth of the child or no need for that.

Kindly help with the answers. Will need more clarity later and will request answers for more questions later.

Many Thanks


 
Title: Re: Quick Question pls
Post by: Andy Battaglia on March 12, 2011, 07:05:29 PM
I think you should have the electrophoresis done for your first child to learn if he is a carrier. This will be essential information for his own life. In a post awhile back you mentioned some testing while he was still in the womb. Were you told that he was a carrier at that time?

I will answer as much as I can. CVS is a safe reliable accurate test and should be done between 10-12 weeks for best accuracy. 8 weeks may be too early. In most cases CVS is all that is needed and amnio can be avoided. Women may feel some cramping during and after the CVS procedure. Results are usually available in about 10 days to two weeks. Ask for an electrophoresis at birth if not automatically done. In the US this is done at birth in most of the country. I believe that in most cases, 20 weeks is the latest that an abortion can be performed in India.
For more information about CVS and amnio, see
http://www.lpch.org/DiseaseHealthInfo/HealthLibrary/pregnant/tests.html

Title: Re: Quick Question pls
Post by: Zaini on March 15, 2011, 07:09:30 AM
Hi Ginni,

I am sorry i am a bit late in answering.

1-CVS is an accurate test but there is a 2% chance of mistake that is accepted internationally.
2-CVS can be done in between 8 to 12 weeks.
3-It would be a bit painful,though local anesthetics are usually used,but after being through child birth i'd say its bearable :) .
4-Amniocentesis is done kinda late,at 20 weeks or so,baby starts moving at that time and parents get more and more attached,so i think CVS is better.
5-CVS test can be done with in 15 minutes,depends on the position of the baby and placenta.
6-Reprt is usually made available in 2 weeks.
7-i am sorry i am not aware of the legal limit,for us its before 16 weeks.
8-If it was up to me i'd definitely validate the test with an electrophoresis.

I am not a doctor or a medical pro,but all this info was provided to me by my doc when i went through CVS.

Hope this helps,

Zaini.
Title: Re: Quick Question pls
Post by: Poirot on March 16, 2011, 07:46:24 AM
In India, the primary limit is 12 weeks - this is the limit for a "single opinion, good faith" abortion by the consulting gynaec.

Details here:
http://aiims.aiims.ac.in/aiims/events/Gynaewebsite/ma_finalsite/report/1_3_7.html

- Poirot
Title: Re: Quick Question pls
Post by: Ginni on March 16, 2011, 09:53:24 AM
Thank You Zaini !! Appreciate your revert.

Just one more question on point 8 - Validating through electrophoresis can that be done immediately upon birth. Like I mentioned before as well the doctors suggested to wait till the child is about 6-9 months old for the electrophoresis test to be accurate.

Thanks
Title: Re: Quick Question pls
Post by: Ginni on March 18, 2011, 07:35:21 AM
Hi Andy & Zaini

Have got the electrophoresis test done for my 1st child. Below is the report.

Thx


Title: Re: Quick Question pls
Post by: Andy Battaglia on March 18, 2011, 10:30:07 PM
Definitely thal minor and I will reassure you that he will never be a major. He is a minor like his parents and should be equipped with this knowledge, so he can make proper decisions as an adult about having children of his own.

As far as when electrophoresis can be done, it is done at birth in many countries as a routine test to determine if the child is a carrier of any hemoglobinopathy. In fact, this is the best time to diagnose alpha thal trait, as the Hb Barts will disappear in the months after birth. It will also show levels of HbA, HbA2 and HbF that can be used to diagnose beta thal trait.
Title: Re: Quick Question pls
Post by: Zaini on March 22, 2011, 03:33:24 AM
My doctor told me the same,to wait till the baby is 6 months old,so that the baby does not have mother's blood in the body.

Zaini.
Title: Re: Quick Question pls
Post by: Ginni on March 26, 2011, 01:40:40 PM
Have been given the appointment in another 3 weeks time for CVS to be done. However today blood samples have been taken for me and my wife for thal beta mutation studies.

Can someone pls explain a little more about whats thal beta mutation studies and how will it help in co relating with the CVS report.

Thx
 
Title: Re: Quick Question pls
Post by: Zaini on March 26, 2011, 07:51:15 PM
Hi Ginni,

They will check what mutations you and your wife have,and then they'll check if the baby has any or both of these mutations.

Zaini.
Title: Re: Quick Question pls
Post by: Cari on April 09, 2011, 04:20:41 AM
Ginni,

This test determines what type of mutation the lab will need to look for. If they r able to determine what each parent has, it is easier understand what to look for. My husband and I have the exact same 619 deletion. Its hard to explain but if they know what they r looking for they will get accurate results. Sometimes labs will need to dig deeper to find the deletion.  I know this because when we initially went through this my husband and I went to two different labs and it was shown that my results were neg for thal minor. Luckily my doctor caught this and realized the lab I went to was not able to perform the test needed. My husbands lab could so we had to redo the bloodwork and send to the other lab.

I don't know if that helps...
Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: Ginni on April 16, 2011, 08:14:38 PM
Have got the mutation studies done for me and my wife. The results are as follows

My Wife result : Fr 8-9
My result : 619 bp deletion

Cant make anything out of it and haven't been able to meet the doctor after that.
CVS has also been done yesterday and the results are expected in 10 days time. Have given out the mutation study report to the doctor who did CVS since they asked for it and mentioned that it would help in turning around the CVS report faster.



Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: Andy Battaglia on April 16, 2011, 09:19:11 PM
I believe both mutations are beta 0. I think this further verifies that first child is not a carrier, as some anemia would probably be present by now, unless there is a co-existing undiagnosed alpha mutation also present. Sharmin's son is a beta 0 major. At one time this meant a more severe thal, but with modern treatment, there isn't much, if any real difference. Knowing the mutations of the parents helps the techs because they know exactly what they are looking for in the genes, because each mutation will have specific characteristics that can be observed when the DNA is tested.


 
Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: Ginni on April 16, 2011, 10:15:04 PM
Dear Andy,

I am sorry i dont understand what is "beta 0" but yes the mutation studies was for beta thalassemia and both me and my wife are beta thal carriers. Even our first child is also a beta thal carrier. His Electrophoresis report is appended in this post which i posted a couple of weeks back. 
What made you say that " this further verifies that first child is not a carrier"

I am even more confused now.

Thanks
Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: Andy Battaglia on April 16, 2011, 11:03:18 PM
I'm sorry. I forgot you had posted the report on the 5 year old. Sorry for the confusion. His test results are not bad for a minor. He may tire a bit more quickly than other children, but at this age he probably won't have any problems. I don't recall if you have ever mentioned if you or your wife have any problems with anemia. Do you know your own Hb levels? Beta 0 genes produce no beta globin, because they are deleted genes. This means that a child carrying both thal genes present in you and your wife, would be a thal major. There is a 25% chance of this with each pregnancy. Beta 0 usually manifests itself as noticeable anemia in carriers, unless they also carry the alpha mutation, which can help to moderate the anemia because a better balance of the two globins is produced. Sharmin and her husband both carry beta 0, but her husband has always had a higher Hb level because he also has an alpha deletion.

There is no way to predict the results of the CVS. The wait must be gut-wrenching for parents. But since you can't do anything about that, it's best not to dwell on the results, but rather objectively assess your life situation, both emotionally and financially in advance of the findings, so you have a better idea of how you want to proceed once you do know, should a decision need to be made.



Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: Zaini on April 19, 2011, 04:11:18 AM
Ginni,

Best of luck  :hugfriend i hope and pray your baby is thal free,i can remember the time when i went through this "wait" and how killing it was,i hope the results are worth it :bighug .

Zaini.
Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: Ginni on April 19, 2011, 06:51:11 PM
Thank You Zaini.
True; its difficult to get thru this wait time but keeping my fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: Sharmin on April 19, 2011, 08:56:28 PM
Ginni,

Sending you my beset - praying that your baby will not have thal.

Sharmin
Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: Ginni on April 20, 2011, 03:58:22 AM
Thanks Sharmin.. Thank you Guys for all your prayers and best wishes.
Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: sushilaneja on April 20, 2011, 08:09:25 AM
Hi All

My case is also going in the same way.My wife is also 7 week pregnant & today we have gone for Mutation Testing & CVS dats is 11 May.

As my first baby is Thal Major so just having doubt of when they will do the HLA/Stem cell matching

Regards
Sushil Aneja
Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: Zaini on April 21, 2011, 03:32:19 AM
Good luck with the test Sushil :goodluck .

Zaini.
Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: Ginni on April 23, 2011, 12:29:20 PM
My Dear Friends and Well Wishers

A good news to share. The CVS result is out and the fetal DNA report confirms that the baby is only a beta thal carrier and has thal trait. It has only one abnormal beta globin gene.

I would not be wrong to assume that the baby has only Thal minor and no major / intermedia.

The result is as below

Father Mutation : 619 bp deletion
Mother Mutation : Fr 8-9
Fetal DNA : Positive for Fr 8-9, Negative for 619 bp deletion
Maternal DNA contamination Test : No significant maternal DNA contamination detected.
The fetus is not likely to suffer from disease.


Thanks to all for your kind wishes and your prayers.

 
Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: Sharmin on April 23, 2011, 02:57:28 PM
Congratulations Ginni, I am so happy for you!  I wish you good health during the pregnancy and when the baby arrives!
That is truly great news!

Sharmin
Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: Cari on April 23, 2011, 03:14:48 PM
 :yay

So happy for you !!!  Wishing your wife a very happy pregnancy!!!
Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: Andy Battaglia on April 23, 2011, 03:23:11 PM
Sigh of relief. Time to relax and make sure mom has a healthy happy pregnancy.
Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: mrzahed on April 24, 2011, 06:05:24 PM
In this case can we do cord blood banking and plan for stem cell transplant
Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: Zaini on April 25, 2011, 03:34:35 AM
Ginni,

I am so glad to hear that  :veil :veil say congrats to your wife for me.

Zaini.
Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: Ginni on April 25, 2011, 03:55:29 AM
Dear Sharmin, Carisma, Andy & Zaini

Thank you all. Because of you guys that the people like us get all the moral support and the patience / knowledge to deal with such difficult circumstances. May God bless you all.

Also as mrzahed has brought up the topic, just for my knowledge can I get the stem cells preserved for the baby, or the stem cells can be preserved only for a non Thal child?

Thanks
Ginni
Title: Re: Urgent Reply Requested - CVS & Mutation Studies (Quick Question pls)
Post by: sushilaneja on April 26, 2011, 11:00:29 AM
Congratulation