Thalassemia Patients and Friends
Discussion Forums => Diet, Nutrition and Supplements => Topic started by: ANI on December 02, 2012, 04:26:13 PM
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Dear All
I need from indain friend to tell me regarding the brand name and the compnay name for Vitamin E(natural) as suggested by Andy and also IP6(Phytic acid).
Rgds
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Dear All
I need from indain friend to tell me regarding the brand name and the compnay name for Vitamin E(natural) as suggested by Andy and also IP6(Phytic acid).
Rgds
Hi,
For Vitamin E, I use Evion (or Avion I think, confused, but mostly it's Evion) is a great brand and I recommend it.
IP 6 is unfortunately impossible, or if not very hard to find and it's not a drug many Indians are aware about.
I've recently ordered it online from below site and it was delivered within 13-14 days:
http://www.seacoast.com/ip6-gold-with-inositol/ip6-international/120-caps/p157
It's very nice and I'm enjoying it. I'm feeling active all day long since I started taking IP 6 and the fatigue is now gone! Fatigue was past.
Moreover, I could also feel some improvements in my sugar levels.
I would recommend to order it as soon as possible as Christmas is neared and holidays may start soon, thereby may delay delivery.
-P.
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This is indian website and the stores are in Pune and Mumbai, delhi
http://www.guardiannutrition.in/vitamins-supplements-best-vitamins-best-multivitamin-p-190.html
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Thanks. I bought Evion drops from the medical stores. But for IP6, yes you are right, the medical stores owner does not seem to be acquinted with this medicine. am not very comfortable ordering on line. may be some Indian companies are also making this drug with different trade names. We will have to keep asking them
Bye
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Thanks. I bought Evion drops from the medical stores. But for IP6, yes you are right, the medical stores owner does not seem to be acquinted with this medicine. am not very comfortable ordering on line. may be some Indian companies are also making this drug with different trade names. We will have to keep asking them
Bye
That's where many customers in India still fear when ordering online. Purchasing from well known sites is very safe. Your details is not exposed neither stored unless you allow them to.
And unfortunately, I doubt you'll find IP 6 anywhere in local medical stores.
-P.
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Evion is not natural Vitamin E - it is made by Merck in India - synthetic Vitamin E is alleged to cause heart issues with long term use.
You should only ask for natural Vitamin E capsules - many of the chemists and health stores carry this vitamin.
I switched to Natvie, which is natural Vitamin E capsules, along with some other minerals and vitamins. It is marketed by Abott in India, if I am not wrong.
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Evion is not natural Vitamin E - it is made by Merck in India - synthetic Vitamin E is alleged to cause heart issues with long term use.
You should only ask for natural Vitamin E capsules - many of the chemists and health stores carry this vitamin.
I switched to Natvie, which is natural Vitamin E capsules, along with some other minerals and vitamins. It is marketed by Abott in India, if I am not wrong.
Oh,
I did not knew that synthetic vitamin E can cause heart issues, especially Evion.
Thanks for the info Poirot.
I will check with the medical stores next time I go to buy medicines.
-P.
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Dear Poirot,
If you have the medicine Natvie then please check that whether it is written as d alpha tochopheryl(Natural) or dl alpha tochopheryl (Synthetic).
There is no where written that Natvie C is NATURAL. you can check the following website.
This site is very helpful in finding any medicine branded or generic. Very helpful
http://www.medguideindia.com/search_brand.php#
I have personally bought medicine Natural E from gncindia.
Dear Pratik,
IP-6 is still difficult to find, even doc don't want to speak single word on it
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Dear Poirot,
If you have the medicine Natvie then please check that whether it is written as d alpha tochopheryl(Natural) or dl alpha tochopheryl (Synthetic).
There is no where written that Natvie C is NATURAL. you can check the following website.
This site is very helpful in finding any medicine branded or generic. Very helpful
http://www.medguideindia.com/search_brand.php#
I have personally bought medicine Natural E from gncindia.
Dear Pratik,
IP-6 is still difficult to find, even doc don't want to speak single word on it
GNC India, is it available in local medical stores?
About IP6,
Yes Dharmesh, you're correct. Very few doctors might be hardly knowing about IP-6 and it's benefits in India. That's why I ordered it online and I feel good, so I'll continue to take it, as it has so many benefits including reversing diabetes and making glucose metabolism effective.
I will be also ordering L-carnitine shortly as Andy suggested.
Also it's sad that the insurance company that had tie up with my dad's company has now refused to pay the bills as they have now stopped paying for genetic disease like Thalassemia. Although I wasn't getting any compensation for these online drugs, but they help immensely so I'll continue to take them.
-P.
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Thanks. What is brand name of natural E of GNC India. Pl let us know
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GNC Vitamin E 400 mix. Available in some mall in Mumbai, Pune, Delhi. The following website have addresses.
By the way , frm where u r?
See this link,
http://www.guardiannutrition.in/vitamins-supplements-best-vitamins-best-multivitamin-p-190.html
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I am from jamshedpur. I have asked the medical stores to get me this. Thanks and Bye
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This is indian website and the stores are in Pune and Mumbai, delhi
http://www.guardiannutrition.in/vitamins-supplements-best-vitamins-best-multivitamin-p-190.html
Thanks for this link, Hanumant. I did not know that GNC vitamins were available in India - but this stuff is very expensive. Rs1600 for 90 capsules?
Actually, I have some doubts about Natvie, too - as they do not sell it as medicine - it is sold as "proprietary food" or a supplement - so, is not covered under FDA. So, they get away by just mentioning the mineral content, but not the source.
Evion 400 is Tocopheryl Acetate 400mg.
Cheers
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Dear All
I need from indain friend to tell me regarding the brand name and the compnay name for Vitamin E(natural) as suggested by Andy and also IP6(Phytic acid).
Rgds
Phytic Acid or IP6 is found in wheat, wheat flour, oatmeal, brown rice - essentially in the husks or shells of grains and some nuts. It is also present in Soy and soy derivatives.
Hope that helps as a natural source.
Cheers
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Doing some more research online, I came across this site:
http://www.goodlife.com/search.aspx?q=vitamin%20e
Has anyone dealt with this company's products?
Thanks
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Thanks for this link, Hanumant. I did not know that GNC vitamins were available in India - but this stuff is very expensive. Rs1600 for 90 capsules?
Actually, I have some doubts about Natvie, too - as they do not sell it as medicine - it is sold as "proprietary food" or a supplement - so, is not covered under FDA. So, they get away by just mentioning the mineral content, but not the source.
Evion 400 is Tocopheryl Acetate 400mg.
Cheers
So Evion is natural right? I too saw it's contents yesterday.
And regarding Vista, no, never came across that brand.
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Thanks for this link, Hanumant. I did not know that GNC vitamins were available in India - but this stuff is very expensive. Rs1600 for 90 capsules?
Actually, I have some doubts about Natvie, too - as they do not sell it as medicine - it is sold as "proprietary food" or a supplement - so, is not covered under FDA. So, they get away by just mentioning the mineral content, but not the source.
Evion 400 is Tocopheryl Acetate 400mg.
Cheers
You are Welcome dear Poirot,
Gncindia's store are in Mumbai (49-A Inorbit Mall, Pune and Delhi)
On the cost , i do feel the same dilemma , but it should be taken like that the daily cost come to Rs 20 (approx) and can be used on alternate day.
It is less than Amway Nutrilite Natural Vitamin E Approx Rs 35
I have used GNC Natural E recently first time because Andy has suggested me GNC, and there was no another option.
But now, the link suggested by you seems very nice and ok. I haven't any doubt on goodlife.com, i will order next time and
there is no additional charges of courier so it is in less than half price per capsule equivalent to 400IU.
Above all you are 42 yrs old frm India, that is great. :))
I am also in touch with some senior members from India. So i also like to be in touch with you through phone etc. , If you permit
thanks and cheers
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So Evion is natural right? I too saw it's contents yesterday.
And regarding Vista, no, never came across that brand.
No dear it is Synthetic.
Merck has not disclosed it at all.
More you can't get natural E in that low price.
There is also discussion on FB for this by Andy
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Phytic Acid or IP6 is found in wheat, wheat flour, oatmeal, brown rice - essentially in the husks or shells of grains and some nuts. It is also present in Soy and soy derivatives.
Hope that helps as a natural source.
Cheers
If IP6 is found in wheat etc, then logically Wheat grass tablets, juice also contain it. So if our diet is powerfull , natural and avoiding junk food there is no woryy for IP6
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I am from jamshedpur. I have asked the medical stores to get me this. Thanks and Bye
I dont think medical store can get this stuff.
but let's hope for the best
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If IP6 is found in wheat etc, then logically Wheat grass tablets, juice also contain it. So if our diet is powerfull , natural and avoiding junk food there is no woryy for IP6
IP6 found in food is very very less. We do need to take it as a supplement, it's a brilliant innovation and Dharmesh I suggest you to take it as well.
About Vitamin E, oh. So where should I buy from? Poirot's link would be good to order it online? From where you ordered Dharmesh? Does that mall have some online website to order or such?
And Poirot I assume you're thal major?
-P.
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http://www.guardiannutrition.in/vitamins-supplements-best-vitamins-best-multivitamin-p-190.html
I am using it, order to above site, got through courier.
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The vitamin E shown in this link is the natural variety, so it is available in India. Thanks Poirot.
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As is the brand given by Dharmesh. In fact, that brand has mixed tocopherols, which are preferred. Thanks D.
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As is the brand given by Dharmesh. In fact, that brand has mixed tocopherols, which are preferred. Thanks D.
So which one would be better considering the cost and everything?
Which one is more good? The one that Dharmesh pointed or Poirot?
-P.
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The Vista Nutrition brand discusses mixed tocopherols in their description, but I am not positive it is a mix, as the label does not specify. I suspect it is however, because the text does refer to the 8 different tocopherols that make up vitamin E. I would use either brand with confidence.
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Above all you are 42 yrs old frm India, that is great. :))
I am also in touch with some senior members from India. So i also like to be in touch with you through phone etc. , If you permit
Sure thing, Dharmesh (sorry about the error in name earlier!) - I have PM'd you my email ID/phone no today.
Andy, thanks for the additional research - I am going to order from Goodlife, and check it out.
Pratik, once again, Evion is NOT natural Vitamin E. You would be better off with Natvie, if you are unable or unwilling to order off the web - many chemists carry Natvie, or can get it for you.
Cheers
Poirot
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Sure thing, Dharmesh (sorry about the error in name earlier!) - I have PM'd you my email ID/phone no today.
Andy, thanks for the additional research - I am going to order from Goodlife, and check it out.
Pratik, once again, Evion is NOT natural Vitamin E. You would be better off with Natvie, if you are unable or unwilling to order off the web - many chemists carry Natvie, or can get it for you.
Cheers
Poirot
Haha Poirot,
Actually I'm king of shopping and buying things online. :P
I order many medicines such as IP-6, Osteocare online.
Are you thal major btw?
PM me your email id as well, would like to be in touch, if possible. :)
And I'll order it from GNC and would see how it goes. It can easily run 3 months, so not bad.
-P.
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Okay, just ordered Vitamin E from guardian nutrition. I was eligible for one time discount coupon and saved RS 300 (6$), hence being the actual cost as 1450 (including shipping).
-P.
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As is the brand given by Dharmesh. In fact, that brand has mixed tocopherols, which are preferred. Thanks D.
Ya but i still has doubt.
Though the name shows mixed tocopherols but the Supplement facts shows Vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopherol only )
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Ya but i still has doubt.
Though the name shows mixed tocopherols but the Supplement facts shows Vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopherol only )
I got the one by GNC shipped today and have started taking.
Is it bad Dharmesh or good as compared to the one which Poirot posted? (Talking both economically and content wise).
-P.
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Haha Poirot,
Actually I'm king of shopping and buying things online. :P
.....
Are you thal major btw?
PM me your email id as well, would like to be in touch, if possible. :)
Good to meet you, King!
And, yes, thal major and kicking some serious ....
Have PM'd you my email ID.
cheers
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Good to meet you, King!
And, yes, thal major and kicking some serious ....
Have PM'd you my email ID.
cheers
Thank you very much, Poirot. Nice to talk to you.
Also, my family doc suggested that there is also a Natural Vitamin E brand in India called "Natvie". My dad have gone to medical store. I'd survey it and will report here. It could be very economic than these other brands.
-P.
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I will also checkout Natvie at medical store, if availabel first
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Thank you very much, Poirot. Nice to talk to you.
Also, my family doc suggested that there is also a Natural Vitamin E brand in India called "Natvie". My dad have gone to medical store. I'd survey it and will report here. It could be very economic than these other brands.
-P.
Yeah it is natural Vitamin E. Do check on the page of co.s site
http://www.francoindian.com/products.htm
Composition:
NATVIETM C 400
Each soft gelatin capsule contains:
Vitamin E U.S.P. 400 I.U.
(Equivalent to 268.4 mg of d-alpha tocopherol derived from natural vegetable oil).
Vitamin C……………150 mg
Approved colours used in capsule shell.
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I got the one by GNC shipped today and have started taking.
Is it bad Dharmesh or good as compared to the one which Poirot posted? (Talking both economically and content wise).
-P.
I haven't used Natvie C yet.
Some frndz on FB on grp Thalpal are using it and it's natural.
Second,
Good life brand is also new for me and cost of it and Natvie are almost same
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I didn't find Natvie at the store from which I purchased my medicines regularly though.
What's the cost per "x" tablets, D?
-P.
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I didn't find Natvie at the store from which I purchased my medicines regularly though.
What's the cost per "x" tablets, D?
-P.
Natvie C has been discontinued by the Franco-Indian Pharma, the medical store guy informed.
Natvie Forte is available having some other contents also in addition to Vit C and E.
check the co's site, even it is not showing Natvie Forte but it is available at medical store. 10 capsules rs 140 approx
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I think I have been swindled by the folks at Vista Nutrition (Medizen Labs) :mad :mad :mad
For those taking the GNC Vitamin E, can you tell me if this a capsule filled with powder or oil?
Both Evion and Natvie have some oil based compound inside them, while this "Vitamin E" I got from Vista seems to have some white powder in it.
Worse, I had also ordered a box of Calcium+Vitamin D capsules from them and that also has a white powder in it!!! Worse, the powder tastes identical to the one from Vitamin E capsules. And, both taste like chalk!
I am writing to the reseller complaining about the product, but I would advise folks to stick to Natvie until (or if) this can be cleared up. I will probably report this company to the FDA too, if that helps.
Aaaargh.
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I think I have been swindled by the folks at Vista Nutrition (Medizen Labs) :mad :mad :mad
For those taking the GNC Vitamin E, can you tell me if this a capsule filled with powder or oil?
Both Evion and Natvie have some oil based compound inside them, while this "Vitamin E" I got from Vista seems to have some white powder in it.
Worse, I had also ordered a box of Calcium+Vitamin D capsules from them and that also has a white powder in it!!! Worse, the powder tastes identical to the one from Vitamin E capsules. And, both taste like chalk!
I am writing to the reseller complaining about the product, but I would advise folks to stick to Natvie until (or if) this can be cleared up. I will probably report this company to the FDA too, if that helps.
Aaaargh.
Damn bro, feeling sorry for you.
I'm taking GNC and it's brown colored small transparent capsule which has oil inside mostly (because I can see through it as it's transparent) and no powder.
So is it good or bad?
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Damn bro, feeling sorry for you.
I'm taking GNC and it's brown colored small transparent capsule which has oil inside mostly (because I can see through it as it's transparent) and no powder.
So is it good or bad?
Thanks - that is what I thought - Vitamin E should be an oil based compound. You are fine, Pratik.
Natvie is also a capsule that contains an oil - I have bitten it in the past to know!
Damn frauds Vista Nutrition - now I can not even trust the Calcium capsules - who knows what they filled in there - Rs1640 ($30) down the drain.
This is the reason I am so careful about the dietary/food supplements/ayurvedic/unani drugs that they sell in India - none of these products are regulated by any organisation in India, and who knows what junk they put in there.
:mad
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Thanks - that is what I thought - Vitamin E should be an oil based compound. You are fine, Pratik.
Natvie is also a capsule that contains an oil - I have bitten it in the past to know!
Damn frauds Vista Nutrition - now I can not even trust the Calcium capsules - who knows what they filled in there - Rs1640 ($30) down the drain.
This is the reason I am so careful about the dietary/food supplements/ayurvedic/unani drugs that they sell in India - none of these products are regulated by any organisation in India, and who knows what junk they put in there.
:mad
Completely agree with your last statement. My dad forces me to take Ayurvedic medicines for diabetes and such but I cannot simply trust any of those vedics. Too much mixture and corruption goes in India and we don't really know what they are filling inside.
Poirot, why spend $30 for calcium? I would really recommend Osteocare for my calcium/mag intake (800mg cal, 350mg mag and 10mg zinc). I've been feeling my bones being stronger since I started.
I order directly from this site (they ship to India!):
http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/osteocare-tablets_1_6688.html
I had trouble swallowing these as they were somewhat rough, big and got stuck in my throat once (deadly experience!), so I now order Osteocare Chewable instead, same contents and very good taste:
http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/osteocare-chewable_1_6639.html
I would really recommend osteocare for excellent bone health and increasing bone mass.
-P.
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Thanks for all the information on Synthetic Vitamin E.
Any suggestions on Natural Vitamin E drops for young patients or is it suggested to open-up soft gel capsule to administer it
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Completely agree with your last statement. My dad forces me to take Ayurvedic medicines for diabetes and such but I cannot simply trust any of those vedics. Too much mixture and corruption goes in India and we don't really know what they are filling inside.
Poirot, why spend $30 for calcium? I would really recommend Osteocare for my calcium/mag intake (800mg cal, 350mg mag and 10mg zinc). I've been feeling my bones being stronger since I started.
-P.
The reseller - Goodlife.com - refunded my entire money and black listed Vista Nutrition on my complaint! They have removed all theri products from their platform - score one for the good guys! In email conversation with Vista, it came out that they were using Tocopherol Acetate as the active ingredient for Vitamin E in their capsules. How they could call it natural vitamin E is beyond me. When I get the time, I am going to file a product complaint with Maharashtra FDA.
The quoted cost was for both Vitamin E + Calcium - in the calcium capsules, they had mislabeling. :mad
I just got Calcimax Forte from the local chemist - this is Calcium + Mag + Zinc + Vit D - Rs145 for 30 tabs.
Poirot
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The reseller - Goodlife.com - refunded my entire money and black listed Vista Nutrition on my complaint! They have removed all theri products from their platform - score one for the good guys! In email conversation with Vista, it came out that they were using Tocopherol Acetate as the active ingredient for Vitamin E in their capsules. How they could call it natural vitamin E is beyond me. When I get the time, I am going to file a product complaint with Maharashtra FDA.
The quoted cost was for both Vitamin E + Calcium - in the calcium capsules, they had mislabeling. :mad
I just got Calcimax Forte from the local chemist - this is Calcium + Mag + Zinc + Vit D - Rs145 for 30 tabs.
Poirot
Dear Poiret,
Congratulationsssss!!!
Calcimax Forte is looking good but D3 is only 200 i.u. which should be 2000i.u. twice the content of calcium but as there is magnassium also u need to add some more Vit D2 or D3 supplements in addition to the Calcimax Forte.
Tip for magnassium , drink coconut water twice a week to get natural magnassium , potassium
you can find more generics on
www.medguideindia.com
Cheers
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Hi Guys,
I was searching yesterday for some other brand of IP6 as the current one I was taking is not suited to me. So while searching on Thalpal, I came across puritan.com, mentioned by Andy.
Now, Puritan has been a company running over for more than 50 years, based in the USA.
I had ordered yesterday couple of supplements from there namely IP6, Milk Thistle and Magnesium Citrate (most absorb-able magnesium). These all and major vitamins and other supplements are manufactured and made by the same company themselves, Puritan Pride.
Also not to mention they are very cheap and you also get 1 or 2-3 bottles free on their supplements depending upon your order assuredly.
I'm linking to natural Vitamin E (400 IU) below:
http://www.puritan.com/vitamin-e-024/vitamin-e-400-iu-100-percent-natural-000540?ssl=1&
I just tried to calculate how much all it rounded to including shipping to India, for 200 softgels, it was only about 40 USD (Rs 2000 INR)!
It's very cheap including shipping even if you compare it with GNC's or Natvie's Vitamin E! At GNC, you get 90 softgels for around 1750 rounding including shipping costs, so if you order two bottles from GNC (that too only 180 softgels), it will cost you more than Rs 3000 INR ($60 USD) whereas the same, even better company and brand gives you 200 softgels (20 more - same 400 IU) in $40 USD (INR 2000) for most countries.
I think Andy will be able to shed some better light on this as I think he also gets most of his supplements from Puritan.com. I'm definitely going to order all my Vitamins from that site now onwards.
Also if anyone interested, 5000 IU Vitamin D softgels are also very cheap compared to Indian companies and their "mixing", high pricey or low dose supplements:
http://www.puritan.com/vitamin-d-326/vitamin-d3-5000-iu-019377
Also my advise would be to order in total less than $90 or rounding to 4000 INR so in order to possibly avoid paying customs duty in respective countries. You can split order like that if you want.
Lot's of great supplement at great price.
-P.
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Pratik,
As I have mentioned before. some people get stomach gas from taking IP6. This is not in any way a dangerous sypmtom, and in you there is quite obviously another source of stomach pain, in addition to this gas. Keep in mind that IP6 is water soulble and will be completely washed out of your body in 24 hours, so pain weeks later, cannot possibly have anything to do with IP6. You may be getting gas from it, but that's all. IP6 is present everywhere in your body naturally.
My wife takes her caps with a full glass of water on an empty stomach and follows that with a cup of tea (no milk). She used either Puritan or Vitacost brands.
Try to remember that the pain is nothing more than gas.
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Pratik,
As I have mentioned before. some people get stomach gas from taking IP6. This is not in any way a dangerous sypmtom, and in you there is quite obviously another source of stomach pain, in addition to this gas. Keep in mind that IP6 is water soulble and will be completely washed out of your body in 24 hours, so pain weeks later, cannot possibly have anything to do with IP6. You may be getting gas from it, but that's all. IP6 is present everywhere in your body naturally.
My wife takes her caps with a full glass of water on an empty stomach and follows that with a cup of tea (no milk). She used either Puritan or Vitacost brands.
Try to remember that the pain is nothing more than gas.
Of course,
I found it as I mentioned. It went the very next day once I stopped it yesterday. I wish I could find out this in the start so as I would be saved from stopping Asunra thinking it maybe was the cause. I was taking IP6 daily and so the pain continued. I took Ayurveda medicines dealing with gas/stomach ache day before yesterday and I woke up relieved the next day.
I hope IP6 is adjusted to my body.
-P.
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Andy,
An update. I am taking IP6 two times a day, but now, after the meals instead before meals instead. I find that IP6 is better digested and adjusted to my body if I take it after my meals. I'm having very little or no pain (at least in these two days, we'll see how it goes further) when taking after the meals since these past 2 days. And my stomach pain/gas/constipation was yes, related to IP6 which I discovered day before yesterday, which is now cured anyway (only experience little when after taking IP6 but trying to adjust it slowly and hopefully IP6 will be adjusted in this way).
I wanted to ask if it's okay to take it after meals instead of pre-meals?
-P.
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Yes, as with most supplements, it's easier after a meal. B Complex is another that can cause discomfort if taken on an empty stomach. Good luck. I hope this has solved the issue.
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Yes, as with most supplements, it's easier after a meal. B Complex is another that can cause discomfort if taken on an empty stomach. Good luck. I hope this has solved the issue.
Yes, definitely Andy, for now.
Now I laugh at my previous situation where I was thinking about as big as appendix or liver problem, which turned out to be IP6 inhibited gas/constipation, ha ha.
Feels very good to have a great stomach, again.
-P.
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The constipation/stomach upset and gastro problem keeps coming back. I'm taking various stomach related Ayurvedic medicines while taking IP6 and it avoids by larger extent, still the discomfort pertains.
Any idea Andy as to if one can get adjust to it in future if he keeps on taking it? Has this ever caused such issue to your wife or yourself (if you're taking it)?
edit -- I'm discontinuing again, lol. Bad constipation and stomach pain, back ache due to gas trouble. I hope Puritan's IP6 would be adjusted, my last order with them failed, I tried with all my credit cards, but they're showing as failed. Moreover terrible custom support service.
-P.
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Pratik,
it is good that you are listening to your body and discontinuing IP6. if you keep us with the regular chelation, you do not need IP6. It is a nice to use supplement not a MUST use supplement.
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Pratik,
it is good that you are listening to your body and discontinuing IP6. if you keep us with the regular chelation, you do not need IP6. It is a nice to use supplement not a MUST use supplement.
Yeah, well, hehe; I was impressed by IP6 all round effects - improving immune system, diabetes help, iron removal and whatnot. Though, that doesn't mean I surrender to it, I'll keep on trying from time to time and conquer it one day, alias! ;)
-P.