My Iron Reports & Further Questions.

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Offline Pratik

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Re: My Iron Reports & Further Questions.
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2012, 06:17:37 AM »
I guess I got an idea as to why this reduction happened at double rate.

Exactly when I got my last FE report done on 22nd September, I in a day or two after it had a sore throat. And I could not eat anything, because all used to get stuck, even full apple. I'm a great apple lover and consume around 5-6 apples daily. So from around 23rd Septmeber to this latest report on November 4, my mom used to peel/reap the skin of apple, and I used to eat them without the skin.

I guess we can easily say that if I am eating 5-6 apples a day, it should be increasing my iron daily by 9-10 units?

So we all know that the skin of apple holds most of the iron and during these 42 days, I was eating them without skin, so calculating daily apple iron by 10 x 40, we get around 400 units for 40-42 days.

Now, my iron always used to lower by 400 units, as per my calculation, but it was more than twice, this time.

So I very much feel this was all due to my not eating apple's skin along with the apple.

If so, I would be consuming them without the skin only.

What you all have to say? Andy, anyone?

-P.
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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: My Iron Reports & Further Questions.
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2012, 12:47:55 AM »
The amount of iron in an apple is not high. It is less with the skin removed, but either way, you're not getting a lot of iron from apples. Keep in mind that non-heme iron from vegetable food is poorly absorbed. One medium apple with skin has about .22 mg iron. Without the skin is .11 mg. Even eating 6 a day won't give you much iron. I think the reason your ferritin is dropping quickly is because of your own efforts to be fully compliant with chelation. The only foods I think should be limited are red meats because they have a high heme iron content, and this is most readily absorbed. There is one reason that the skin of apples might want to be avoided, and this is in the case of apples being treated with high amounts of pesticides. Otherwise, eat up. Fruit in general is recommended because they have high amounts of vitamins and antioxidants.

What has been learned with chelation is that the closer you get to 24/7 chelation, the better it works. Rust never sleeps and neither does the iron-caused oxidation in the bodies of those with an iron load. Chelation as close to constant and diet and supplements high in antioxidants are recognized as the best way to counter this and keep thals healthy.

To check nutritional content of foods, go to http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/list
Andy

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Offline Pratik

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Re: My Iron Reports & Further Questions.
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2012, 05:04:07 AM »
Great, thank you Andy.

And I'm a vegetarian, so meat and all is not an option for me. :)

-P.
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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: My Iron Reports & Further Questions.
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2012, 03:25:56 PM »
I'm veg too, Pratik.  :biggrin  The only suggestions I have for diet in vegetarians is to make sure your diet is well balanced and that you avoid empty calories as much as possible. Excess iron absorption from food should not be a concern for vegetarians, so eat what you like as long as it's healthy food. You will get plenty of vitamins, minerals and antioxidants on a good veg diet.
Andy

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Offline Pratik

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Re: My Iron Reports & Further Questions.
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2012, 04:35:19 PM »
Great to hear that we share something in common he he.  :biggrin

And yes, why kill animals when I can get something from natural source which is delicious? :)

-P.
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Offline Dharmesh

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Re: My Iron Reports & Further Questions.
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2012, 08:14:12 AM »
My Doc always do tell me that "If you are chelating don't worry about iron absorbtion from diet, veg food"
i was also taking methi / bhaji/ palak all kind of leafy vegetables daily twice...
So Cheers dear
but five apples daily are very high it replaces your diet like wheat , roti, rice etc.
means it should not replace regular diet.
it should be in addition to regular diet.
Because our diet is very well balanced like wheat, rice , protein etc.
Start listening your body, it always gives signs

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Offline Pratik

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Re: My Iron Reports & Further Questions.
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2012, 04:45:39 PM »
I hardly eat any rice, not because that I've diabetes, but I don't like it.

-P.
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Offline Pratik

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Re: My Iron Reports & Further Questions.
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2012, 04:23:16 PM »
It is very sad to say that this Ferritin report is not so good.

It's 5800. The last 41 days ago, it was 4546. So an increase of 1200 or so.

It is also important to note that I'm cutting out Exjade since past 2 weeks due to pain issues. Meanwhile, since 26th November 2012, I've been taking IP6.

Andy,

Could it be that these reports might be wrong (although I am being skeptical) because the iron might have entered blood stream meanwhile my blood work was taken? Not sure but I feel these reports would be possibly accurate.

Oh well, I've also seen my doc today and he gave me a medicine and also advised me to do Sonography, which I'll mostly get done tomorrow evening and that he'd advise furthermore after that.

Also Hep. C is negative and the doc also advised to do billirubin and so it's report will be heard tomorrow, let's hope for the best.

Iron results are little depressing though, I'm unable to take Asunra and my iron is packing up and transfusion is scheduled tomorrow, so I'm at stake of increase in iron again.

I worked so hard since May 2012 and made a good regime and iron plan, and when I see it defeating me, it's an issue that makes me upset.

But I appear more fairer than before, so I wondered how I could get this, but a good thing is that my sugar levels were high these days and this still leaves me with hope that when my iron would decrease, I'll again have nice functional pancreas.

-P.

edit: Andy, it is also important to note that I'm since couple of days eating my most loved fruit Wood Apple (Kothu in Indian language):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limonia_(plant)

It's biological name is also referred to Ferronia Limnonia. Could we take Ferronia as in an Ferritin/iron based term? On good days, I eat up to 3 of them a day. Is it a problem?
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 04:46:38 PM by Pratik »
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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: My Iron Reports & Further Questions.
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2012, 03:55:15 PM »
Pratik,

I wouldn't worry about the ferritin report. Since you are still having pain after 3 days off from taking supplements and Exjade, I think your problem may lie elsewhere. If you have any viral or bacterial infection or inflammation, your ferritin will rise, independent of iron load. I would suggest also stopping the wood apple for a few days and see if it has an effect. Wood apple is an astringent used to stop diarrhea and it may be having an intestinal effect that is causing pains. Only stopping it for a few days will tell you if it's involved.
Andy

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Offline Pratik

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Re: My Iron Reports & Further Questions.
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2012, 04:14:58 PM »
Pratik,

I wouldn't worry about the ferritin report. Since you are still having pain after 3 days off from taking supplements and Exjade, I think your problem may lie elsewhere. If you have any viral or bacterial infection or inflammation, your ferritin will rise, independent of iron load. I would suggest also stopping the wood apple for a few days and see if it has an effect. Wood apple is an astringent used to stop diarrhea and it may be having an intestinal effect that is causing pains. Only stopping it for a few days will tell you if it's involved.
So I take that the actual ferritin might not be high but due to viral? So what to consider, is it real or just reports showing that it has rose? Confused here.

Billirubin is also normal, Hep. C is negative, so it's great that I'm not having any potential big problems. My family doc also prescribed a medicine since yesterday to bring SGPT levels down and improve liver health, so I can start exjade ASAP. I'm going to get Sonography done on Monday most probably.

Andy, also any possibility that IP6 might be extracted iron out of organs and it maybe shown in the blood stream while the blood work was done? Is it possible?

About Wood Apple, sure. I thought too today to take it off as I've already ate good amount of them for the season (I love them lol).

Thank you very much.

-P.
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Offline Pratik

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Re: My Iron Reports & Further Questions.
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2013, 05:13:55 PM »
Forget this. Wrong results as I hoped.


Hello everybody!

First of all before proceeding or jumping off to anything or mentioning my reports, I want to ask;

Question #1: I've learned from this board from Andy that due to viral or bacterial infection, ferritin may rise. Then due to some viral infection (I'm suffering from mild cold and low fever, body temp is normal, just fever feeling since past 5 days), can FERRITIN go DOWN?

Firstly, I describe a little about the recent bad events in past 3-4 months. It was around beginning of December when I took IP6 and I got bad gas and constipation - I couldn't figure out that this was the cause until mid January and had stopped Exjade/Asunra for about 1 and half month with irregular and almost no doses! I had pain on both side of stomach due to gas and thought my liver or kidneys were humming up so I discontinued Exjade (foolishness!).

Then since 4th January 2013, I started with L1/Defriprone/Kelfar with low doses and sometimes no dose due to joint pain which I continued somewhere till January end, when I found this was all gas trouble and not an Exjade issue!

Thereafter, I started Exjade again (around January 2013 end) and been taking it successfully since then.

Before that, around 13/14th December, my ferritin reports stated 5800, there was a rise of 1200 unit since last report which was 4456 (which was done on October 3, 2012). And as mentioned above, after that the irregularity with chelation continued for about a month and a half.

Question #2: Could the above rise for December's S Ferritin report maybe due to extracted iron in blood stream and that the actual report might be low? Because this question would be quite viable for my next question that I'm going to ask.

So here comes question #3: I'm taking IP6 (500mg, 1000mg since past 2 days) since almost a week now and as IP6 binds iron, can Ferritin reports be shown low?

Now here comes the part where in my excitement I wish to use that F word (sorry, hehe). Tomorrow is my transfusion scheduled and here is the new Ferritin report after almost 3 months (find the attached pic!).


IT'S 1323! OH MY GOD, how could this be so very low? Is there some fault? (Report was done at same lab and same time in the morning as my all blood tests every time are). We have asked them to redo the test and we'll know tomorrow the result of it most likely.

But the correct difference would be known when next time (after 21 days) when I'll want to/would redo the ferritin test again to see if this is where I'm standing. I'm little skeptical for now but happy at the same time.

Been started on split dose regime since 28th April, 2012 (Thanks THALPAL!). I've seen much worse days in these recent months with almost no chelation.

Also all my life, I've never saw my ferritin reports under 3000, heck not even under 3500 most of the times as I was growing so this is something which is really an astonishment to me.

But it's not the time I be happy, the true results will be known tomorrow or maybe next time only but for now, I've a thing to cheer up on. Yeah baby! If I can too, the man who never saw his reports under 3000, you definitely could!

Also I want to add that my ALT/AST (SGPT/SGOT) levels are 54 and 65 respectively. When taking 1600mg Exjade (aggressive chelation dose per my weight), my ALT/AST were never lower than 80-90 and in recent cases stayed around 130 or so. I'm taking milk thistle since a week and I can now tell that it's helping me. Recommend it very much.

Creatine was 0.2, how nicely low despite taking good few protein supplements. I hope lower is fine as well, right?

Also taking green tea extract (or green tea) and IP6 will greatly aid in chelation from vital organs.

Andy has always been a standing pillar to me. He always keenly replied my messages despite it maybe annoying or the tough times he was going through and I really want to support this community and thalassemia majors in future. Perhaps if I end up being a millionaire I'll provide all healthcare facilities including medicines for free to all TMs.  :rotfl

Andy, Sharmin, everybody, I'll be waiting for my answers on these crucial questions.

-P.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 02:07:44 PM by Pratik »
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Offline Pratik

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Re: My Iron Reports & Further Questions.
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2013, 02:12:03 PM »
Got the ferritin done again today from the same sample as yesterday, tremendous variation.

It's not 1323 but 5100, right as I hoped. The lab tech said they did some dilute check yesterday or something like that and so results were altered. I was pretty sure something was wrong.

But nevermind, I'm happy either way. Because there is still a hope for my diabetes to be cured! Because this was winter and my sugar levels were pretty good than last winter (they spike a lot in winters) so I know I'll be a lot better when I'll get the levels under 3000 and below.

I also have started Exjade/Kelfar combination since last week. 5 days Exjade, 2 days Kelfar (on weekends, 3/day - low dose).

After last report of 5800 in December mid, as I mentioned in my earlier post, I had stopped Exjade and in January beginning started irregular doses of Kelfar. The actual chelation started again in February, so levels of 5100 are very good in my view!

I'll try to get the levels near 3000 or below by June. Gotta throw lot of IP6 and green tea extracts now. ;)  :rotfl

-P.
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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: My Iron Reports & Further Questions.
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2013, 07:30:41 PM »
Pratik

You are making progress, but I have been continually questioning ferritin reports from patients in India. I don't know why, but reports are making little to no sense. It is making it difficult to advise patients.

Ferritin would not drop during infections and inflammations. It would certainly rise as iron is sequestered in serum ferritin so that it is not available to any invading bacteria or viruses.
Andy

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Offline Pratik

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Re: My Iron Reports & Further Questions.
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2013, 07:52:14 PM »
I now do ferritin reports at only one lab, and after split dose, they've been great without any variation.

But this time, the method of checking was somehow altered and hence this result.

Nonetheless, even going through hard times, I made progress. I'll try to get below 3000 by the end of May.

-P.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 06:26:30 AM by Pratik »
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Offline Pratik

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Re: My Iron Reports & Further Questions.
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2013, 04:12:43 PM »
We misheard over the phone. Ferritin is not 5100 but 5417 as seen from the report I'm holding right now.

Nonetheless, still good considering I stopped chelating for about a month and this was outcome of only around a month's chelation.

I'll be upping IP6 dosage to 1500 today (3 caps) and see if I can adjust now to 1500 instead of 1000mg.

I think anyone whom IP6 is giving side effects like constipation could adopt my developed regimen. I started from small dose 500mg and took that for several days, then jumped onto 1000 and would jump to 1500 today and see if it can be adjusted to me. I'm glad that Puritan's products are complementing to me. I'll now look forward to order most of my vital supplements from them.

-P.
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