Clenbuterol and ways to deal with low HB

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Offline Nomad

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Clenbuterol and ways to deal with low HB
« on: August 31, 2016, 08:39:52 PM »
Dear all,
has anyone of you any experience with Clenbuterol ?
 I am looking for for some kind of better oxygene suply, (things like Arginine for example) and a way for us to survive the last 2  days bevore transfusion when the HB has fallen to 8,...
Any idea or recomendation?

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Clenbuterol and ways to deal with low HB
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2016, 03:05:45 AM »
I would advise against its use. It's only legal for horses in the US and its effects are similar to that of albuterol, which I am quite familiar with, having asthma, and the effects of regular use are and enough where albuterol is only to be used as a rescue inhaler in most cases. Doctors have shifted patients to long term preventative drugs, so the use of albuterol on a regular basis is now discouraged. My own experience agrees.
For a good discussion of Clenbuterol, see http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/549131
Andy

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Offline Nomad

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Re: Clenbuterol and ways to deal with low HB
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2016, 06:41:24 AM »
Thank you for the answer Andy. So what is recommended for the last days before transfusion when Hb is dropped and oxygen supply is very low? Anyone any recommendations? I should've named the topic "how to survive the last two days..." What ever helps, if you know anything please write it down here.

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Clenbuterol and ways to deal with low HB
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2016, 08:18:24 PM »
What's your folate dose?
Andy

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Offline Nomad

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Re: Clenbuterol and ways to deal with low HB
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2016, 09:44:05 AM »
I am taking a high doses vitamin B complex from "Pure encapsulations" which contains

B3 as
Niacinamid 100mg & inositol hexaniacinate 10mg
Vitamin B5 as calciumpantothenate 100mg
Thiamine HCL (B1) 100mg
Activated B6 as pyridoxal 5 phosphate 10mg and pyridoxin HCL 10mg
Activated B2 as riboflavin 5' phosphate 10mg and riboflavin 5mg
Biotin 400mcg
Metafolin (as calcium L-methyl folate) 400mcg
Activated B12  400mcg
I take it every second day because it is very high dose. Do you think I can take it daily? Or what do you think about it in general? I have also heard that to much B3 could isn't good for high Uric acid.

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Clenbuterol and ways to deal with low HB
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2016, 05:15:06 PM »
I've taken a similar product daily for many years. I don't worry about too much, because B vitamins are water soluble and are excreted from the body quickly.
Andy

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Offline Nomad

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Re: Clenbuterol and ways to deal with low HB
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2016, 01:42:56 AM »
So daily intake is recommended...
Do you know anything about B3 affecting the Uric acid level?
I'm on Alopurinol 150 mg

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Clenbuterol and ways to deal with low HB
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2016, 04:54:45 PM »
It's advised to not take niacin if you are being treated for high uric acid or gout, as it can raise levels of uric acid. it's recommended to talk to your doctor before taking niacin.
Andy

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Offline Nomad

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Re: Clenbuterol and ways to deal with low HB
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2016, 07:49:32 AM »
Thank you andy, I think i will look for some other B-complex...
My curent uric acid level is 6,8. Last week I've had a discussion with my Doc because she allways give me only 2 units with HB 8,6! After insisting and getting a little louder, she admits to give me, and this just only for this time because I was on 8,0 , a third unit. Problem is I actualy didnt feel real better on the contrary it kind of exsausted me... Like it was to much... :huh

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Clenbuterol and ways to deal with low HB
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2016, 04:53:06 PM »
The higher volume of fluid with an added unit does stress the heart a bit. For several reasons, I have long thought that weekly transfusions of just one unit would work best, but it's not a very practical approach.
Andy

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Offline Nomad

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Re: Clenbuterol and ways to deal with low HB
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2016, 11:19:33 AM »
That's true. I think it would be the best "dosage" but if I imagine the veins getting stitched every week, oh boy!!
It is and will always be an unsolved problem!
Low Hb, bigger heart beat, more extra medullary erythropoesys, more lower back pain and higher temperature...
Higher Hb, to much for the heart, to much iron and to much stress for the body...
So one more question, is it actually a bad idea for someone to stay at a low Hb, meaning 8,6 before transfusion and about 10+ after, if he has learned to deal with this??

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Clenbuterol and ways to deal with low HB
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2016, 09:07:59 PM »
Your heart never learns to deal with low Hb. It causes the heart to work harder to supply oxygen throughout the body. In the long run, this is something to be avoided when possible. The top thal docs in the US want Hb kept above 10 at all times.
Andy

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Offline Nomad

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Re: Clenbuterol and ways to deal with low HB
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2016, 07:10:55 PM »
Well, then I m doomed!!   :wah :wah
 I have tried several times to explain them exactly this point... the only answere I always get is "this would only cause an iron load, you would only hemolise faster, or my favorite, MDS (myellodysplasia) patients have also to deal with lower HB and they are doin fine...  :dunno

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Offline Andy Battaglia

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Re: Clenbuterol and ways to deal with low HB
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2016, 05:21:03 PM »
It is very frustrating because doctors are ignoring the process taking place in the human body. When the Hb drops below 10, an increase in bone marrow activity takes place. In thals, this means more defective red blood cells are produced. Keeping the Hb high prevents this ineffective erythropoiesis, which is the stated goal of transfusion. By not keeping the Hb high enough, the purpose of transfusion is countered. Higher Hb is not bad for the heart and the added iron can be dealt with by chelation. That is the modern approach to transfusion and chelation and doctors need to be aware of the purpose of transfusion in the first place.
This is from the SOC and doctors need to be fully aware of the twofold purpose of transfusion.
Quote
The purpose of transfusion is twofold: to improve the anemia and to suppress the
ineffective erythropoiesis
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Ineffective erythropoiesis can only be suppressed by maintaining a sufficient Hb level.
Andy

All we are saying is give thals a chance.

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Offline Dori

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Re: Clenbuterol and ways to deal with low HB
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2016, 10:55:18 AM »
Nomad,
Be sure they address your problems NOW. Keep talking and talking and otherwise find yourself a new doctor. I know thals in Germany getting transfused by 9 or 10 gl/dl These hematologists exist. Maybe you can find one of these hematologists and get your transfusion treatment somewhere else (more local)?

 

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