Discussion Forums > General Chatter
Gaza massacre
Andy Battaglia:
--- Quote ---So, you win the elections and then kill your opposition. Nice democratic party, eh?
--- End quote ---
As I said, like it or not, they won.
If Israel would actually ever abide by the terms of a ceasefire, we could see if the other side is willing to change their attitude, but Israel has continued to suffocate Gaza, contrary to the terms of the ceasefire. Jimmie Carter came away from Hamas with the idea that they could be flexible but now we won't know if they were giving Carter a lot of BS or if they would have been willing to accept an Israeli state as they had hinted, as long as Israel stopped the occupation.
I won't say Hamas is not to blame also, but this reaction by Israel is as has been characterized here, a massacre. It won't solve any problem and the destruction visited on Gaza will only come back to haunt Israel. What Israel wants is the same exact thing that all terrorists wish...that their actions create total terror in the public. It is terror of the highest degree and it needs to stop, just as the violence perpetrated on India from Pakistan has to stop. (How much longer before Pakistan even admits that it was Pakistanis who were behind the latest attacks? It gives Pakistan's government little credibility when they fire the national security adviser after he admits that the terrorist caught was from Pakistan! This won't help. Pakistan knows it has a problem and unless they confront it, things will go very badly in the future, as India will not sit silently as attack after attack comes. If Pakistan does nothing to root out the terror training camps and nothing to bring these criminals to justice, India will act and I am sure it will be a disaster for all). We have to reach a point in the history of humanity where violence is no longer used to solve problems.
jade:
It has always been the case in the past that when a certain group is selected and persecuted, they gather more followers and this brings in more fighters for that cause. So I agree totally with Andy:"Israel never held up its part of the ceasefire, keeping borders closed and depriving the area of basic necessities, in a belief that if conditions are bad enough under Hamas, that the people will turn on Hamas. A belief that is strange. It didn't work in Iraq either. Instead it created terrorists where none had existed previously. It doesn't work. It only creates even more hatred."
The argument Israel used for that offensive was to reinforce the Fattah's political power over Hamas and the exact opposite has been obtained. They kill children and they do not want retaliation. Parents watching their children die, though they could not have been in favor of Hamas initially, will most certainly turn into Hamas activists.
The definition of terrorist is as follows:the calculated use of violence against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear. The argument Israel used for that offensive was to reinforce the Fattah's political power over Hamas, therefore it can be said that Israel is also a terrorist state.
It is really sad to see so many children dying and Israel says it is looking for terrorists only, are these children terrorists?
Manal:
Hi Poirot,
--- Quote ---Then, there was the whole issue of Hamas not willing to remove "the destruction of Israel" as one of its core aims - why would any sane party negotiate with some one committed to its destruction?
--- End quote ---
I would like to tell you that this is not specificly concerning Isreal, this ''destruction'' will be the target for any colonizers, whether they are isreali, X, Y, or Z. Again in our beliefs we will never stop unless we free the land, same as in Iraq with the States or with any colonizer, so yes it is an aim to get rid of people taking their land.
--- Quote ---The moot question here is why does Egypt enforce the SAME blockade? Please answer me that.
--- End quote ---
Isreal plan is to put Gaza under Egypt's superviosn through the opening of the boarders so that in the future for a reason or another they will put their hands over Sinai (Egypt).
Some people in Egypt agree with opening the boarders and are completly opposing the government and other are not. Although i am opposing the general performance of the government, i don't agree about opening the boarders because this will threat the security of Egypt, imagine that you are sitting in your house with your door open, you have no control on any thing , You are threaten by terreoists, extremists, even isreali troops can have any excuse for passing by. BUT i agree with what is going now which is conditioned opening of boarders
1- To pass injured civilans to go to hospitals to get their treatment
2- On daily basis, many trucks of food and drugs pass the boarders to reach the people there
What will help the people is not opening the boarders but what will help is that the presidents of the Arab world including egypt do anything to preasure isreal to stop fire. Opening the boarder will not save the people, it will only increase the area of Gaza no more
--- Quote ---Egypt, Jordan, and even S Arabia now recognise the right of Israel to exist
--- End quote ---
When isreal colonized part of Egypt (Siani) from 1967 - 1973, we had the same attitude and all our aim was to get our land back and we were able to do that in 1973 war, They are recognized by us after we were able to get our land back. So let them return the land of the palestian to them and i am sure that the palestinan won't mind to recognize them. By the way Poirot recognizing Isreal by Egypt is a piece of paper at the end ( peace treaty) but the egyptians themselves, no way they totally condmn them and is very hard to change this and the isreali know this quiet well
--- Quote --- I see that over the past ten years Israel has moved a lot in trying to carve up a two-nation state where both the Jews and Palestinians can live in peace. Israel has even used its army to forcefully remove settlers from both Gaza and the West Bank.
--- End quote ---
Who said this Isreali has been putting every obstecle to damafe any thing and this was also encourged by the subjective attiudes of the neighbouring countries. As a palasteinian why should i live with my colonizers in peace, just give me one good reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You are dealing with a country that has a big map inside of their knesit claiming the state of Isreal should start from Egypt until Iraq, are those people willing to do any good, i doubt this. This is only a steryotype from the controlled media
--- Quote ---When Fatah wants to negotiate a solution, Hamas kills them in a fratricidal civil war.
--- End quote ---
This is because we all know that Fatah is an agent for the US and Isreal
I am not defending Hamas by the way cause they also have there big mistakes but there are boarder lines in this issues and million of details, the main boarder line is that palasteinan will never stop fight Isreal to regain their land and the corruption of their government and the subjective attitude of the other arab governments will hinder this. Unless we all unit, the situation will worsen
Poirot, you are not offending any one, as this is your own opinion and definetly opinions contradicts but at the end, respect to one anther is the only thing that matters and this is the part i love and we all have toward each other
manal
Canadian_Family:
Okay, I tried to stay out of this topic, its getting nasty.
Elections in Israel are due in Feb 2009, Mr. Olmert (not a premier candidate this time) sternly being criticised on corruption basis, needs a legacy. Mr. Ehud Barak is the next candidate for premier job, needs something to play on. Get it……
The leaders of India and Pakistan should have their heads examined. Generally, millions of their citizens die of hunger and poverty and they don’t give it a ‘D’. Yes they take on the opportunity to play on the blood of few innocent, pure political manoeuvre.
Andy Battaglia:
Do you sometimes get the idea that it is only the leaders who want constant strife? It seems that very few leaders anywhere have any interest in peace, while the people always suffer.
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