SUPPLEMENTS FOR CHILDREN

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Offline Sharmin

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SUPPLEMENTS FOR CHILDREN
« on: October 26, 2008, 04:55:12 AM »
My son is 10 years old, about 27kg.  I am giving him the following supplements:

Carao                                      4 tsp in warm milk  (ordered from Lloyd Standish)
vitamin E                                 200 IU                  (Jamieson Brand)
vitamin C                                 250 IU (1/2 hour after beginning his desferal infusion)
B Complex vitamins                   Jamieson brand
vit B1, B2, B3, B6, and B12        50 mg each
Biotin and Pantothenic Acid        50 mg each
choline bitartrate and inositol      50 mg each
Omega 3 fish oil                       2 caps a day  Little Squirts brand
     EPA                                   54 mg
     DHA                                   37 mg
     evening primrose                  56
IP6                                        2 caps twice a day
Fermented Papaya                    still ordering
Osteocare                                awaiting order
   calcium                                2 X 300mg
   Magnesium                           2 X 150mg
   zinc                                     2 X 6mg
   vitamin D                             2 X 3.8 mcg
L-Carnitine                              50-100mg per kg of body weight - up to max of 3g/day
curcumin                                beginning 1 tsp in warm milk

I will continue to update this and let you know what I observe after using these supplements. 

I think the important thing to look for when purchasing vitamins is the ingredients, knowing that they are from natural sources and they don't contain any preservatives, sugars, starches etc that can cause stomach irritation.  The brand names may be different depending on where we live. 

Let me know if I missed anything and feel free to add what you find to be useful. 

Sharmin




« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 06:22:06 AM by sharmin »
Sharmin

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Offline Manal

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Re: SUPPLEMENTS FOR CHILDREN
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2008, 05:31:29 AM »
Hi Sharmin

Please consider adding L-Carnitine. It has  very important functions

1- Decreases Apoptosis
2- Maintaing healthy muscles and the most important heart muscle ( that is why the only side effect for taking it is a little bit increased activity of children i.e becoming more naughty :rotfl)
3- Prolonging the life of red blood cell so it can increase the gap between transfusions
4- In some intermedias, it increases the Hb

In my opinion best way to take it is in drops as it is tasty and easy to administer. It is also available in tablets. It has no side effects at all as each of our body cells has L-Carnitine and also pregnant women can take it safely. It should be taken by adult thal too

In Singapore conference, it was of great interest to cardiologists

The dosage is according to body weight twice a day. When first taken, it is everyday for a whole month, then later on twice a day , 5 days per week

manal
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 05:38:19 AM by Manal »

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Offline Sharmin

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Re: SUPPLEMENTS FOR CHILDREN
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2008, 05:38:25 AM »
Thanks Manal, I will add that:) 
Sharmin

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Offline Sharmin

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Re: SUPPLEMENTS FOR CHILDREN
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2008, 05:47:35 AM »
Manal,

What dose of L carnitine are you using for your son?  I used this supplement before my son's treatment this summer - now I am trying to re establish his supplement routine but because of the abrupt manner in which his new treatment began this summer (when we were asked to discontinue everything else for a few weeks) - I have lost track of everything especially vitamin dosages! 

Sharmin
Sharmin

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Offline Manal

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Re: SUPPLEMENTS FOR CHILDREN
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2008, 06:13:42 AM »
Sharmin, i use an Egyptian brand (drops ). The dropper is  1 ml .

Each ml contanins 300mg of L-carnitine. I give him two and half dropper 5 days per week (on two doses)

The dose for children is 50-100 mg/ kg body weight, maximal dose is up to 3g per day


So i give him 50mg/kg

please feel free toask if anything is not clear
manal

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Offline Ayesha

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Re: SUPPLEMENTS FOR CHILDREN
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2008, 08:46:45 AM »
here comes the dumb member again with her list of questions :D *yay*

well, I just want two lines on each of the thing i mention below, so that it helps me understanding them :$

Calcium:
Vitamin A:
Vitamin B:
Vitamin C:
Vitamin D:
Vitamin E:
Magnesium:
Phosphorus:
L-Carnitine:
Zinc:

can any of you please write two lines for each of them so that i can understand them... and can start them, am taking them right now except Magnesium, Phosphorus, L-Carnitine and Zinc, and kindly mention the doe please???

and btw, few weeks ago I mentioned that I have got to know I have Hep. C, but after getting the result of my test of Hep. C PCR, It is clear that I don't have Hep. C and being a dumb member I shared my problem but I couldn't update that I have got result :$ am extremely sorry... :$ thanks for your care, time and support thanks alot! and please please please please forgive this dumb member :$
-Ayesha

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Offline Manal

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Re: SUPPLEMENTS FOR CHILDREN
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2008, 10:11:51 AM »
Ayesha, in general thal has contionous depletion for all minerals and vitamins because the body is under great stress. Those viamins have many functions but i will just say what may be of concern to thal. So this means that these are NOT the only functions

Calcium & Phosphorus: Both are essential for healthy bones. This is important to thal because usually the bone marrow is active and cause a lot of pressure on bones causing them to be brittle that is why you need to have as much as possible healthy bones. Phosphorus should be present in order for the cell to release energy needed for metabolism

Vitamin A: important in the formation of red blood cells, vision, growth and development, immunity, and one of the most things is that its defiency causes zinc defiency too

Vitamin B:There are lot to say here and there are many vitamin B like B6, B12,.... but they are also important for blood formation, nervous system, gene expression and they act as coenzymes. Their presence is important for the formation of many enzymes. Increase the immunity
 
Vitamin C:For thal it shouldn't be taken within meals but rather between meals as it helps in the absorption of iron. It should be taken after half an hour from the starting of desferal because it helps to release more iron out of the body. A max dose for a thal is 250mg everday. Though we have to stay away from Vitamin C because of iron , we should not have deficiency in it because it is an antioxidant and can regenerate other antioxidants such as vitamin E . It is important to in the formation of carnatine.

Vitamin D:You have to have it in order to absorb Calcium and Phophrous and therefore vitamin D defiency leads to Osteoporisis. It is important in the secretion of insulin. Helps in growth

Vitamin E:it is an antioxidant, research in Singapore conference said it was safe to take daily up to 600mg but it should be from a natural source. It is very important for thal because they have a very high oxidative stress

Magnesium: makes the red cell membrane stronger and therefore prolonging its life and therefore decreasing hemolysis leading to a decrease in the levels of bilirubin and therefore helps in the less formation of gall stones, important to the heart because togather with calcium regulates the heart beats, it is important in more than 300 reactions in the body

L-Carnitine:Decreases Apoptosis, maintaing healthy muscles and the most important heart muscle, prolonging the life of red blood cell so it can increase the gap between transfusions, in some intermedias, it increases the Hb

Zinc:Most of the metabolic reactions depend on the presence of zinc.  They can have three roles either thy help in formation of enzymes, or they themselves are the main components of proteins or they can regulate certain body functions. Very important for growth that its absence may cause growth retardation to children


Ayesha, i tried to be brief but you can learn more about the above in this link
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins.html


Also in my opinion, i think that if there is a possibility to check these levels in the body would be the best choice because sometimes things contradictes with other .
For example too much zinc decreases the absorption of magnesium and chelates copper

Hope this helps

manal

« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 10:18:42 AM by Manal »

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Offline Dori

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Re: SUPPLEMENTS FOR CHILDREN
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2008, 05:58:39 PM »
Ayesha also asked the question in name of me.

I can't believe that you all taking so many supplements. I only take 5mg of folic acid daily. In the past I forgot it 9 of 10 times.
All my docs never mention this stuff. Thank god, i'd a new doc at the age of 16 who told me to start with chelation therapy so fast as possible. I have never been warned for that. I did take a few L1/deferiprone, but it wasn't enough. My ferritine was at that time 5000. It's 2400 at the moment. Exjade isn't doing his job very well yet;)

Be proud of yourself that you all know so much about it.

Cheers, Dore

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Offline Manal

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Re: SUPPLEMENTS FOR CHILDREN
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2008, 07:13:48 PM »
Never mind Dore, better late than never :wink

Please feel free to ask whatever you want and welcome dear :hugfriend

manal

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Offline Narendra

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Re: SUPPLEMENTS FOR CHILDREN
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2008, 07:48:19 PM »
I would like to know the difference when taking the vitamins mentioned in the post along with the chelator being used. For example, Vit C is good when used with desferal, but what if someone is not at all on desferal and on either L1(Kelfer) or Exjade(Asunra), should they still take Vitamin C?

Thanks Sharmin for the post.

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Offline Sharmin

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Re: SUPPLEMENTS FOR CHILDREN
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2008, 09:32:31 PM »
Narendra,

Although I don't have a definitive answer to that question - I am basing it on the reasoning given for using vitamin C 1/2 hr after desferal infusion is started. 

Vitamin C is thought to release iron stores from the liver - when administered with desferal infusion it increases the iron available for desferal to bind and remove from the plasma.  Vitamin C is given when some desferal is available in the blood stream and will then be available for 9.5 to 11.5 hrs continuously after. 

If we use this reasoning with Exjade, it is known that Exjade has a longer half life so it is available in the body for up to 14 hours after consumption.  Technically, if vitamin C is taken 1/2 hour after Exjade the same might apply as desferal.  I don't know if the Exjade is also as efficient as desferal at removing free iron from the plasma but I know that it should bind some free iron from the plasma and excrete it. 

The story for L1 is different because of the shorter half life - so if the L1 is taken several times a day MAYBE - the same logic would apply - taking vitamin C with it would improve chelation. 

I am guessing that vitamin C for enhancing chelation purposes probably apply mostly to desferal - because desferal does not tend to work as well at the tissue level - instead it does a better job of removing iron from plasma.  L1 and Exjade do remove iron at the cellular/tissue level therefore the need for vitamin C is not the same. 

Vitamin C for L1 and exjade users may be more for the other protective benefits that it provides.  As far as safety - I would imagine that vitamin C is safe to give with a dose of any chelator because the chelators are present to bind the free iron released from the liver by the vitamin C.  However, a good doctor should be consulted because this deduction is limited by my 'logic'. 

Remember too that taking vitamin C with no chelator on board may be hazardous to thalassemia patients for two reasons:

1. it increases the iron absorption from food
2. It releases free iron from the liver - which is then available to damage the organs because no chelator is present to bind it.

Sharmin
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 12:11:15 AM by sharmin »
Sharmin

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Offline Sharmin

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Re: SUPPLEMENTS FOR CHILDREN
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2008, 04:33:26 PM »
Andy,

Can you help me answer and expand on the use of vitamin C and its use with Exjade and L1? 

I know that thals should not use it if there isn't a chelator on board because it releases free iron from the liver - and that it aids desferal by means of this mechanism, as desferal removes free iron from the plasm.  Should it be safe to use vitamin C in the same way with L1 and exjade?  I also hope to have my son on exjade for the most part in the future - but I really want to continue to give him vitamin C (to 250 IU as dr. vichinsky advised).  Since we have increased his dose of vitamin C he does not bruise and seems to be doing very well.  While reveiwing our vitamins he remarked that the 100 IU we were giving was 'not enough'. 

Sharmin
Sharmin

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Offline Ayesha

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Re: SUPPLEMENTS FOR CHILDREN
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2008, 04:47:39 PM »
Manal!!!! thanks a ton for those details, now another task for you guys *me loves to bug you guys  :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl :rotfl *

my tablets of vitamins and calcium and everything is over, and i gonna buy them this week, now I want you to suggest me dose and tablets, what shud i take? and how much?

my weight is 55 :$ and age 21 :)!

waiting for detailed reply hehehe :D

and am not sorry for buggin :D :D :D :D :D!
-Ayesha

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Offline Zaini

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Re: SUPPLEMENTS FOR CHILDREN
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2008, 05:39:34 PM »
Ayesha,

Although i am not a doctor but i'll advise you some brands,but please check with the doctor first,

I think you should be taking,Folic acid,(Folitab or any other tab,daily),calcium +Vitamin D (Chew cal ,daily),half a tab of Abocal after starting desferal,Vitamin E (Tokosvit 1 or two tabs,daily),Zincat syrup (containing Zinc,two spoonful,daily).I am sorry i am unable to locate any brand containing megnesium.Add a multi vitamin with out iron and with out a high dose of vitmin C.For that you'll have to bug the chemist  :biggrin.

Along with all these my daughter is taking IP6,wheat grass and carao.

Anything else you want to ask,i'll be happy to answer  :hugfriend.

Zaini.
^*^Xaini^*^

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Offline Ayesha

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Re: SUPPLEMENTS FOR CHILDREN
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2008, 05:57:33 PM »
Thanks alot for the reply Zaini! i appreciate it :)!

there is tablet I asked from Chemist: Supradyn-N contains:
[Copper:1mg, Phosphorus:25.5mg, Zinc Oxide:0.5mg, Thiamine HCl (Vitamin B1):20mg, Tocopherol (Vitamin E):10mg, Retinol (Vitamin A):3333IU, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2):5mg, Nicotinamide:50mg, Molybdenum:0.1mg, Manganese:0.5mg, Folic Acid:1mg, Iron Salts:50mg, Magnesium Oxides and Hydroxides:18.8mg, Cyanocobalamin:5mcg, Biotin:0.25mg, Calcium Pantothenate:11.6mg, Calcifediol:500IU, Ascorbic Acid:150mg, Pyridoxine:10mg, Calcium:50mg]

and Revitale-B contains:
[Inositol:10mg, Pantothenic Acid:12mg, Thiamine HCl (Vitamin B1):2.8mg, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2):3.2mg, Nicotinic Acid:36mg, Folic Acid:400mcg, Cyanocobalamin:2mcg, Biotin:0.15mg, Pyridoxine:4mg]

now tell me guys is it ok to take any of them? Supradyn contains IRON SALTS :S 50 mg :S  and yes here is another: Centra Silver

9 WATER SOLUBLE VITAMINS
Vitamin B1     1.5 mg
Vitamin B2     1.7 mg
Vitamin B6     3 mg
Vitamin B12     25 mcg
Niacin     20 mg
Biotin        30 mcg
Pantothenic Acid     10 mg
Folic Acid     200 mcg
Vitamin C     60 mg
5 VITAL MINERALS
Calcium     200 mg
Magnesium      100 mg
Potassium     80 mg
Phosphorus     48 mg
Chloride     72 mg
Lutein       2.5 mg

4 FAT SOLUBLE VITAMINS
Vitamin A     6000 IU
Vitamin D     400 IU
Vitamin E     45 IU
Vitamin K1     10 mcg

12 TRACE ELEMENTS
Iron     9 mg
Zinc     15 mg
Iodine     150 mcg
Copper     2 mg
Selenium     25 mcg
Manganese     2.5 mcg
Chromium     100 mcg
Nickle     5 mcg
Silicon     10 mcg
Vanadium     11 mcg
Molybdenum     25 mcg
Boron     150 mcg

it contains 9 mg Iron

I still can't find any multivitamin widout IRON :|
-Ayesha

 

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